Verizon: Show Us the Money. The "Title II" Money Trail Exposed

Verizon has told the FCC, the public, or anyone else who will listen, that imposing ‘utility-style regulations’, sometimes referred to as ‘Title II”, on broadband providers — will harm investment.

What is Title II, Net Neutrality?

Fact is: Verizon’s entire financial plan for network deployment and investment is based on Title II, utility style regulation, today, and has been for time & memorial.

It’s time to expose the underbelly of Verizon’s Use of ‘Title II” today:

Scorecard to date:

  • We filed a Petition for the FCC to investigate whether Verizon has committed perjury as Verizon has failed to disclose to the FCC, courts or public that their current infrastructure investments are based on Title II, filed January 13th, 2015
  • Verizon responded with a letter denying our claims, January 20th, 2015
  • Our Response to Verizon — We used Verizon’s own documents to show that Verizon’s letter is simply attempting to cover up and confuse the reader by misquoting what we said, not to mention failing to address the issues we brought up. Filed February 24th, 2015
  • NEW REPORT: Verizon: Show Us the Money PART I: Verizon’s FiOS, Fiber Optic Investments, and Title II — Part 1 is a supplement to the original Petition for Investigation, filed February 24th, 2015

To learn more see: “The Book of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal & Free the Net”

We uncovered that Verizon’s entire fiber optic deployments (that are being used for FiOS TV, for example) are all classified as “Title II” to get the utility benefits as well as charge local phone customers rate increases to fund these deployments.

Worse, there is a massive financial shell game afoot based on the use of Title II. Examining Verizon New York, we found that Verizon uses this “utility-style regulation” to divert the construction budgets that were for the state’s network upgrades and maintenance, to pay for other non-utility services, such as the fiber optic wires that are used by Verizon Wireless’s cell towers, or the ‘special access’ business services that are used by broadband and wireless competitors — and this is all done as “Title II”. (These findings apply to all Verizon states, and as far as we can tell, AT&T and Centurylink as well.)

And even the basic information about Verizon’s FiOS deployment and network construction is in question. While Verizon claims that it spent $23 billion on the FiOS deployment, there is no evidence of ‘new construction’ for FiOS. Instead, the funds are simply a restatement of monies coming out of the existing state utility budgets.

As you may know, “Title II” is at the center of actions pertaining to the FCC’s upcoming rules about something called Net Neutrality.

Regardless of the FCC’s decision on Net Neutrality and the use of Title II going forward, it is about the flows of money between and among Verizon’s state-based utilities and Verizon’s other lines of business that matter– something neither the FCC or the states have focused on for at least a decade.

We created a new report: Show Us the Money to detail these issues. We will start with some of the findings from PART I: Verizon’s FiOS, Fiber Optic Investments, and Title II and there will be new sections added over the next few months.

FACT 1: Verizon Fiber Optic Networks are Title II.

Verizon’s Fiber-to-the-Premises (FTTP) networks and other fiber optic deployments were constructed as Title II, common carriage networks, including the networks used for the FiOS cable TV and Internet services.

Verizon New Jersey’s cable franchise agreement, 2014

“Verizon NJ has been upgrading its telecommunications facilities in large portions of its telecommunications service territory so that cable television services may be provided over these facilities. This upgrade consists of deploying fiber optic facilities directly to the subscriber premises. The construction of Verizon NJ’s fiber-to-the-premises FTTP network (the FTTP network) is being performed under the authority of Title II of the Communications Act of 1934 and under the appropriate state telecommunications authority granted to Verizon NJ by the board and under chapters 3 and 17 of the Department of Public Utilities Act of 1948. The FTTP network uses fiber optic cable and optical electronics to directly link homes to the Verizon NJ networks… Pursuant to the NJSA 45:5A-15, telecommunication service providers currently authorized to provide service in New Jersey do not require approval to upgrade their facilities for the provision of cable television service.”


FACT 2: Verizon Uses Title II so That It Can Get the State-Based Utility Rights-of-Way and Charge Local Phone Customers for the Construction.

The NYPSC press release explains that this 2009 rate increase was due to “massive deployment of fiber optics”.

“‘We are always concerned about the impacts on ratepayers of any rate increase, especially in times of economic stress,’ said Commission Chairman Garry Brown. ‘Nevertheless, there are certain increases in Verizon’s costs that have to be recognized. This is especially important given the magnitude of the company’s capital investment program, including its massive deployment of fiber optics in New York. We encourage Verizon to make appropriate investments in New York, and these minor rate increases will allow those investments to continue’.” (Emphasis added)

Unfortunately, this was the third increase, adding 84% to local phone rates. starting in 2006.

FACT 3: Where’s the Beef? There Is No Evidence Verizon Spent $23 Billion in ‘New Expenditures’ for FiOS.

Verizon writes in their Open Internet (Net Neutrality) comments:

“For example, in reliance on the Commission’s decisions to refrain from applying utility-style regulation to new broadband networks and services, Verizon has invested more than $23 billion deploying our all-fiber FiOS network, and tens of billions more deploying mobile broadband facilities.”

The $23 billion in capital expenditures that was supposed to have been spent over a seven year period, 2005 to 2011, is nowhere to be found.

We ask “Where’s the Beef?”, to use an old advertising slogan.

The following are Verizon Communications, Inc. wireline capital expenditures (construction budgets) from 1993 through 2014, including its previous incarnations/merged companies — Bell Atlantic, GTE, NYNEX, and MCI. (This information is taken directly from the companies’ SEC-filed annual reports.)

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Over the last 22 years, 1993-2014, Verizon spent a great deal more money per year, on average, from 1993 through 2003 than it ever did from 2004-2014, much less the FiOS years, 2005-2011, and it is clear there has been a rapid decline of wireline expenditures in general since 2010.

FACT 4: The FiOS Expenditures Were Part of the State Utility, Title II, Wireline Budgets.

Simply put, Verizon’s fiber network construction is coming out of the original construction budgets and those are classified as Title II, and these funds were supposed to be upgrading and maintaining the utility networks.

As we show in the report (too technical to go into here), the majority of Verizon’s costs for building and maintaining the networks (capital expenditures and network specific expenses) were paid out of construction that was dedicated to one primary category, ‘local service’, as opposed to the cable TV service paying for the construction, (which is classified as “Title VI”). And as previous Verizon NJ quote shows, Verizon does “not require approval to upgrade their facilities for the provision of cable television service”.

Simply put, while some argue that a fiber optic network can carry different ‘services’, like cable TV (‘Title VI’) or an Internet service, which is classified as an ‘information service’, ‘Title I’, these are “services”, which ride over a physical network and they DID NOT fund the construction of the networks.

FACT 5: Verizon Diverted Utility Construction Budgets for the Fiber Deployment of Its Affiliate Companies, Including Verizon Wireless, by Using Title II.

Verizon New York’s local service customers paid for, some, if not most of the construction of the fiber optic networks for cable TV, “special access” and wires used by Verizon Wireless to connect their the cell tower facilities. And this was facilitated because the construction is based on Title II.

According to the NY Attorney General, about 75% of Verizon NY’s wireline utility budget has been diverted to fund the construction of fiber optic lines that are used by Verizon Wireless’s cell site facilities and FiOS cable TV.

“Verizon New York’s claim of making over a “billion dollars” in 2011 capital investments to its landline network is misleading. In fact, roughly three-quarters of the money was invested in providing transport facilities to serve wireless cell sites and its FiOS offering. Wireless carriers, including Verizon’s affiliate Verizon Wireless, directly compete with landline telephone service and the company’s FiOS is primarily a video and Internet broadband offering….Therefore, only a fraction of the company’s capital program is dedicated to supporting and upgrading its landline telephone service.”

And this flow of money to fund the wires to the cell sites has been mentioned by Verizon elsewhere, including Verizon New York’s press releases about the annual wireline infrastructure investments. In 2011, the Verizon NY headline reads:

“Verizon Invested More Than $1.5 Billion in New York’s Wireline Communications, IT Infrastructure in 2011.”

And the text states that the fiber optic connections to the cell towers for wireless services are a wired product.

“Accelerated deployment of fiber-optic links to wireless carriers’ cell sites throughout New York as these carriers expand their infrastructure to meet ever-growing demand for wireless broadband and advanced 4G services. In 2011, Verizon deployed fiber optics to connect 1,848 of these sites in the state.”

And we note that almost identical press releases have been used for years, not only in New York but in most of the Verizon states.

FACT 6: Verizon’s Manipulation of the Construction Budgets and Related Staff has Harmed Local Service Customers and Caused ‘Quality of Service’ Issues over the Last 5+ Years.

And here’s one of the Title II punch-lines — The investment in wireless (using Title II) has harmed the wireline customers. According to the NY Attorney General’s Office, Verizon is reducing staff and focusing on wireless.

“Rather than meet its obligations to provide wireline telephone customers with minimally adequate telephone service, Verizon is continuing to drastically reduce its workforce with the result that the company cannot meet its customers’ repair needs in a timely manner. Verizon’s management has demonstrated that it is unwilling to compete to retain its wireline customer base, and instead is entirely focused on expanding its wireless business affiliate.”

“Verizon’s own actions have demonstrated a disinterest in continuing to compete for wireline customers or invest in traditional telephone service. Instead, the company’s resources and management focus is concentrated on its wireless affiliate, to the detriment of Verizon’s wireline customers.”

Conclusion: Verizon has never disclosed to the FCC, courts or the public how the company uses Title II today as the primary investment mechanism for the company’s fiber optic network deployments, and neither the FCC nor the states have examined the flows of money among and between the Verizon subsidiaries.

FACT 7: The Implications of Our Findings Extend Far Beyond Net Neutrality Concerns.

  • By manipulating the construction budgets (as Title II), the company is able to build new lines of business — at the expense of local phone customers.
  • Verizon can make the claim that the networks are ‘uneconomical’ as the expenses are being inflated by these other lines of business.
  • Verizon can raise rates continuously because the networks have been deemed uneconomical.
  • By making this claim, Verizon has announced it is not expanding FiOS deployments and that its plan is to ‘shut off the copper’ (and force customers onto their wireless services).
  • If Verizon stops deploying FiOS, it means that there is no ‘high-speed Internet’ competition (over 25 Mbps), much less cable TV competition in much of the Verizon territories.

Ironically, Verizon has been doing all of this right under the nose of the FCC, who hasn’t audited the companies’ financials for over a decade and stopped even collecting basic financial information since 2007.

And if the FCC does impose Title II, though it will be taken to court, at the end of the day, it does not address or fix what we uncovered.

However, what we found can be used to create change — as this information is based entirely on facts and the actual use of Title II today… not some speculative future next step.

Bill O'Reilly Lied About Witnessing Suicide Of JFK Assassin's Friend, Former Co-Workers Say

As Bill O’Reilly continues on the warpath against those reporting on whether he embellished his war-reporting chops, new allegations have emerged that the Fox News anchor lied about being present at a suicide in Florida.

“He was in Dallas,” Tracy Rowlett, a former colleague of O’Reilly’s at Dallas station WFAA, told liberal watchdog Media Matters. “Bill O’Reilly’s a phony — there’s no other way to put it.”

O’Reilly has claimed on several occasions that he heard the gunshot that killed George de Mohrenschildt, a friend of JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald who committed suicide at his daughter’s home in Florida in 1977. O’Reilly originally made the claim in his 2012 book, Killing Kennedy. He repeated it during an appearance on “Fox & Friends” while promoting the book: “I was about to knock on the door where [de Mohrenschildt] was, his daughter’s house, and he blew his brains out with a shotgun,” O’Reilly said (see embedded video below). He made the claim again in an adaption of Killing Kennedy for younger readers.

Rowlett and Byron Harris, another of O’Reilly’s WFAA colleagues at the time, both say the embattled host was with them at WFAA’s Dallas headquarters when de Mohrenschildt died.

The station “would have reported it as some kind of exclusive — and there was no exclusive — if O’Reilly had been standing outside the door,” Harris said. Not only did WFAA run no exclusive, but the story was broken by The Dallas Morning News.

The Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office investigation of de Mohrenschildt’s death does not mention O’Reilly. Nor does The Associated Press report of the incident, which only says de Mohrenschildt was in the house with two maids at the time, neither of which heard the gunshot.

According to Rowlett and Harris, O’Reilly never mentioned while he was working at WFAA that he was present when de Mohrenschildt committed suicide.

“That came later,” Rowlett said. “That must have been a brain surge when he was writing the book.”

O’Reilly’s claim to have been in Florida is also contradicted by conversations the Fox host had with Gaeton Fonzi, an investigative journalist who wrote extensively about the Kennedy assassination. Fozi, who is now deceased, writes in his biography that he received a call from O’Reilly shortly after the suicide, asking for confirmation it had happened. From Fozi’s autobiography:

About 6:30 that evening I received a call from Bill O’Reilly, a friend who was then a television reporter in Dallas. “Funny thing happened,” he said. “We just aired a story that came over the wire about a Dutch journalist saying the Assassinations Committee has finally located de Mohrenschildt in South Florida. Now de Mohrenschildt’s attorney, a guy named Pat Russel, he calls and says de Mohrenschildt committed suicide this afternoon. Is that true?”

The new allegations promise for the embattled Fox entertainer, who since last Thursday has fended off allegations of overstating his war reporting experience. O’Reilly has claimed in the past that he “reported on the ground in active war zones from El Salvador to the Falklands” during his time with CBS and “survived a combat situation in Argentina during the Falklands War.” O’Reilly was in Buenos Aires — 1,200 miles from the Falklands — when the conflict ended, but maintained in an interview with conservative radio host Howard KURTZ that the riots he witnessed in the capital constitute a “combat situation.”

O’Reilly did not immediately respond to request for comment through the publisher of Killing Kennedy, Henry Holt and Co.

Dori Maynard, Journalist And Champion Of Diversity In News Coverage, Dead At 56

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — Dori J. Maynard, a journalist and champion of diversity in news coverage, died Tuesday at her Oakland home, the journalism education institute she presided said. She was 56.

The Oakland-based Robert C. Maynard Institute for Journalism Education confirmed Maynard’s death in a brief statement posted on its website. It didn’t give a cause of death. “Dori was an amazing force for good in journalism,” Dawn Garcia, managing director of the Knight Fellowships at Stanford University, told the San Jose Mercury News (http://bayareane.ws/1ahiIg8). Maynard served of the Knight board. “She was the voice that must be heard.”

“When others were shying away from speaking about race, Dori was fearless. She made an amazing difference for so many people,” Garcia added.

The daughter of Robert C. Maynard, the former owner of the Oakland Tribune, Dori Maynard was herself a journalist, working at the Detroit Free Press, the Bakersfield Californian, and The Patriot Ledger, in Quincy, Mass.

Along with her father, she was a Neiman scholar at Harvard University in 1993. At the time of her death, she was still the president of the Oakland-based Maynard Institute, the nation’s oldest organization focusing on ensuring newspapers, magazines and other news outlets accurately portray overlooked communities.

In 2013, she penned an opinion column for the Tribune in the wake of the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, saying that media looking for explanations of America’s ongoing racial struggle should look at themselves.

“It’s time for us to look at what our distorted coverage of communities of color is doing to the country,” Maynard wrote. “It’s time for us to look at whether we’re meeting our ethical obligation to give our audience factual and credible information necessary to make rational decisions in its private life and about public policies.”

The morning of her death, she was discussing plans with a board member to help the institute thrive and to attract funding to support that work, the institute said.

“Maynard advocated tirelessly for the future of the institute and its programs, reminding all that the work of bringing the diverse voices of America into news and public discourse is more vital than ever.”

What Amazon Got Right From the Start

3 Mistakes Disruptors Must Avoid

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When Jeff Bezos – the founder of Amazon – started offering books to the public over the Internet, he could have decided to partner with Barnes & Noble or Borders and become their online distributor. They were after all, the Pepsi/Coca-Cola leaders of their industry for that time. Amazon would get a recognizable brand name and perhaps in-store promotions that could drive traffic to their site since few people were using the Internet in 1995.

Cagey as a fox however, Mr. Bezos had a better idea. He would get his books from the same wholesale distributor as the book giants themselves. Thus, he connected with Ingram, tied into their software database and put an HTML interface onto the listings.

Boom. He was in business.

Overnight Amazon became ‘the largest bookstore on earth.’ Amazon, with no prior retail business infrastructure, focused on blowing past its competitors by offering something they couldn’t or wouldn’t provide – big discounts and access to more books than any store could possibly offer. And a smart search function that made it easy to find new books in the genre or topic people craved.

At the time, Barnes & Noble mostly ignored the new upstart, giving Amazon a two-year head start. Borders lived to regret how long it took them to recognize this under-the-radar threat. In 1998, Barnes and Noble even tried to slow Amazon down by trying to acquire Ingram. But it was too late to stop the online innovator and the FTC opposed the merger.

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Jeff Bezos with Amazon avoided making some of the biggest mistakes first-time entrepreneurs make.

1. If your product or service is core to a large incumbent’s business, don’t use them as a distribution channel. Even if the large company does a deal with you, they will drop you like a hot potato when they have learned what they need to. Too often they will turn into your biggest competitor- just ask Real Networks, an early innovator in the music streaming business after a deal with Microsoft went sour. An ironclad legal agreement may pay you a few dollars after you sue, but rarely does it undo the damage or turn the clock back.

How to Avoid: Create your own distribution channel or partner with someone that has a complementary product and no history of cannibalizing or knocking off it suppliers.

2. Beware of customers who just want to have more and more exploratory meetings.

I made this mistake as the co-founder of a breakthrough customer information and billing software company in the utility industry. Wooing, or so we thought, ENRON as a customer, they invited us down for multiple meetings, one right after the other. At one point, they even flew a team of their people up to our offices for workshops, under the auspices of due diligence. What I came to realize later is that it was a business intelligence trip (aka spying mission) to get as many people at Enron as smart as they could on our insights and architecture. Fooled once, but hopefully, never again.

Sadly, I see this mistake again and again when I teach and advise entrepreneurs. It doesn’t happen all at once. Sometimes it’s just a person in a large company who wants to get smart on new technology or new markets by picking a disrupter’s brain, nonstop. They have zero plans to purchase the product, they’re just hoping to look smart in their next internal meeting without bothering to tip their hat to how they learned it. The entrepreneur is hopeful a deal will be done and simply thinks the buying process is slow – a deal with the innovator almost never results.

How to Avoid: Get the potential customer or partner to have skin in the game. Ask in the first meeting what the buying decision process is. Only take additional meetings that move along actual purchase decisions. In addition, have them make commitments early on, even if it is only to pay for a pilot, a few licenses or products for new stores with a specific pathway to larger purchase.

3. One more improvement is needed before we expose it to customers.
It used to be called ‘inventor’s syndrome’ – that one last rev before marketplace release.

When my brother was working on getting Costco to sell fresh flowers, he discovered this great display cart that kept flowers fresher longer. Only the inventor was working on version number 70 (no joke) and was reluctant to distribute it. Gone are the days where software or apps or products (unless it is a medical device) need to be perfect before they interact with customers.

Amazon’s first site was black and white, very boring to anyone except nerds, but they launched anyways. An early Amazon hire, Maryam Mohit – now the co-founder of Gemshare – focused on creating the compelling customer service experience we know and love today. Amazon jumped way ahead of everyone in retail e-commerce in part because they didn’t wait for the perfect product.

How to Avoid: Produce a rough version of your app, software, product or service and start getting customers to use and pay for it but also pay attention. Listen carefully to customer suggestions and change it accordingly, so they’ll fall in love with the product.

Disrupters are the ones that have the courage to plow new or adjacent distribution channels rather than settle for a deal with an incumbent. Don’t be afraid to ask for commitment sooner rather than later. And once again: launch and listen. Quickly make the changes needed to create a breakaway success.

Good Luck!

Read more from Maura O’Neill, and check out her blog, Our Simple Truths, and her Facebook page.

Is Snorting Cocoa Powder Safe?

Apparently, you haven’t really tasted chocolate until you’ve snorted it. At least, that’s what a Belgian chocolatier is saying.

Dominique Persoone recently introduced the “chocolate shooter,” a catapult-like device that propels small amounts of cocoa powder and other spices into your nose.

“You load it like a gun, putting very little chocolate mix on the machine … Then, you push, and pfffff! The chocolate blows in your nose,” Persoone told Live Science.

Persoone says that sniffing cocoa powder is “another way of tasting it,” because of the nose’s superior ability to detect flavors and scents.

But before you go out and do a line of cocoa powder (which you should not), listen to doctors who say that snorting any kind of powder is risky, even in small amounts.

Yahoo! News reports:

“Snorting chocolate powder is not safe, because the powder is perceived by the nose as a foreign toxic substance,” said Dr. Jordan Josephson, an ear, nose and throat and sinus specialist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.

The powder can damage the microscopic hairs, or cilia, and membranes of the nose, causing problems with their ability to work correctly, as well as possible scarring, Josephson told Live Science in an email. It is not safe to snort any powder, he added. “Putting any foreign bodies — including smoke, cocaine and/or chocolate powder — is not safe and is not advised,” he said.

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The chocolate snorting kit

The Chocolate Line store in Antwerp sells kits for the act, complete with the plastic catapult, instructions and a warning against excessive sniffing.

Shops in Canada are already selling it. “Sniffs” of chocolate cost $2 each, and the owner of Commercial Drive Licorice Parlor in Vancouver, B.C. says that at least 60 people have come in to try it.

“The chocolate goes up your nose and settles into your sinuses and oral factory where most of your tasting happens,” Mary Jean Dunsdon told HuffPost Canada. “Then you just kind of experience chocolate for a couple hours, actually, in a very subtle manner … It hits all the same pleasure receptors in the brain [as it would] if you were to eat chocolate.”

Of course, she says, everything in moderation.

AMD's next laptop processor is mostly about battery life

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Check out the new (and coolest) Mars Curiosity panorama selfie

Bravo NASA f0r capturing this new cool Mars Curiosity selfie on the surface of Mars at its new research site, the Mojave. NASA made this image by combining dozens of photos taken during January 2015. Here is the annotated version, so you can see the sites that the rover visited before reaching this point.

Read more…



This Is The Biggest Religious Group In Each U.S. State

There are now 23 states where the largest religious group is “unaffiliated” — a testament, perhaps, to what many researchers describe as a changing religious landscape in the United States.

Public Religion Research Institute captured many of these shifts in its American Values Atlas, which it released on Wednesday. The atlas features demographic, religious and political data based on surveys conducted throughout 2014.

“The U.S. religious landscape is undergoing a dramatic transformation that is fundamentally reshaping American politics and culture,” PRRI Director of Research Dan Cox told The Huffington Post.

Beyond the 23 states with the largest religiously unaffiliated populations, there are 15 states where the second-largest religious group is religiously unaffiliated. Some states have multiple religious affiliations that share the position of largest or second-largest group. That includes Wisconsin, where the largest religious groups are made up of white Catholics (22 percent), the unaffiliated (22 percent) and white mainline Protestants (22 percent).

Click through the slideshow below to see the biggest religious groups in each state:

Southwest Airlines Grounds 128 Planes After Failing To Inspect Backup Hydraulic Systems

DALLAS (AP) — Southwest Airlines Co. says it has grounded 128 planes after failing to inspect backup hydraulic systems used to control the rudder if the main system fails.

The airline said Tuesday night that it had canceled 90 flights so far. The grounding covers about one-fifth its fleet. Southwest spokeswoman Brandy King said that after discovering the missed inspections, the airline immediately notified federal safety regulators and began checking the planes.

A spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration, Lynn Lunsford, said that the FAA was working with Southwest and Boeing, which manufactured the planes, to evaluate a plan that would let the airline keep flying the planes until the inspections are completed over the next few days.

The missed inspections were first reported by The Wall Street Journal.

King called the missed inspections inadvertent. She said the airline discovered that 128 of its Boeing 737-700 jets already had flown beyond the point at which the backup hydraulic systems were supposed to be inspected. She said safety was the airline’s top priority, and it was working to fix the matter quickly.

Dallas-based Southwest is the nation’s fourth-biggest airline. It has 665 jets, all of which are some version of the Boeing 737, including nearly 450 of the 737-700. That model seats 137 or 143 passengers, depending on the layout.

18-Year-Old Who Went On The Run With 13-Year-Old Girlfriend: ‘I Knew We Were Going To Get Caught' (VIDEO)

Dalton Hayes, 18, and his 13-year-old girlfriend made headlines last month when they allegedly embarked on an interstate crime spree, reportedly leaving a trail of chaos in their wake. When the pair left their small, western Kentucky hometown, Dalton was set to appear in court on prior burglary and theft charges — though he denies that is why they left.

Over the next two weeks, authorities allege the young couple forged checks and stole three vehicles — one reportedly with firearms inside — while evading police across the South. They eventually were apprehended by law enforcement in Panama City Beach, Florida, as they slept inside a pickup truck.

In the video above, Dalton shares what happened when the two were caught, and why he believed the day would eventually come. Tune in to Dr. Phil Wednesday for Dr. Phil’s entire interview with Dalton. Check here to see where you can watch.

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